Latest ISOT

Link to Paeter's video included for convenient reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLkATkk7z0g

2:16 "...how powerless wealth is to significantly extend a person's life."

Really? That didn't sound right at all, so I did some research, and look what I found:

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2016/04/for-life-expectancy-money-matters/

Not to mention that even if you didn't actually live longer, if you have more money you don't have to waste as large chunks of your life doing pointless soul-crushing jobs just to afford the necessities of staying alive.

5:46 "...we tend to think of more money as the primary solution to our practical or emotional problems."

Well, for practical problems, it often IS the solution. Or can buy the solution. Even for problems money can't fully fix, it rarely hurts to be able to afford expert help for current problems and good insurance against future ones.

1:59 "...the believer, finding themselves in financially poor circumstances, should celebrate the high position they truly have..."

Oh, and once again, smile when you're punched. Ugh. Hard pass, no thanks.

See, this is what bugs me about James. Sometimes, the book reads like it was written by someone who has been around the block enough to know the world is full of BS, and is ready to call it out. (Consider 2:14-17, or 5:1-6.) Then sometimes the author drops us verses like 1:2-11, or 5:13-16, that make him sound like some kind of alien that landed on earth yesterday, who knows even less about how the world actually works than your average 10-year-old. Are we sure this is all the same author?

Hey Kim,

Regarding "how powerless wealth is to significantly extend a person's life", the word "significantly" is included on purpose. And it seems you may have missed what I say at 3:30-3:51.
If you go back and listen again, I make the point that James has a zoomed out, eternal perspective, and that is what he is calling us to as well. 20 years and 98 years are hardly different at all when we count time in the billions of Eons.

Regarding money being the primary solution to our practical and emotional problems, I agree that it can often be very useful. But I don't think we should so narrowly see it as the main thing that can solve problems. For example, a person may have difficulty gaining or keeping employment(and therefore money) because of issues of their character or other emotional and personal traits. Or a person's lack of wisdom with finances can cause them to start with a lot of money and end up poor. Giving them more money won't fix that problem.

Yes, you can use money to pay for counseling or education to help in these kinds of areas. But there are other avenues, that don't depend on someone coming up with cash on their own, that can bring about helpful self-transformation that is more conducive to employment.

I can really appreciate and relate to your struggle with scripture. I still run into verses that just rub me the wrong way. I think the way you'll gain the insight (and ultimately the help) that you want will be found in wrestling through scripture in an ongoing relationship with those in a biblical, compassionate and local church community. A nine minute youtube bible study speaking broadly for a wide variety of people just won't be able to meet you where you are particularly at on this issue. Even if you add to that an online forum full of people who want to help. So if you'd ever like help finding a good church, I'm happy to do what I can.

Okay, let's see, that's "disagreement must mean you didn't understand me," "I know what you need/want better than you do," and "the problem isn't actually the problem, the problem is you/your attitude." Oh, wait, are we not playing Lame Evangelical Excuses Bingo? That's a shame. I almost had a winner.

Paeter wrote:But I don't think we should so narrowly see it as the main thing that can solve problems. For example, a person may have difficulty gaining or keeping employment(and therefore money) because of issues of their character or other emotional and personal traits. Or a person's lack of wisdom with finances can cause them to start with a lot of money and end up poor.

Paeter, you've been on this planet for nearly four decades. Please don't tell me that you still believe this world is a just meritocracy where good and right decisions are rewarded with any kind of consistency. When the cost of living keeps rising, but despite good performance reviews your wages are frozen and your hours get cut, does that sound like a lack of wisdom problem, or a lack of justice problem? Because that's a very common story these days. When the economy is in the toilet and it's cheaper to hire three part-timers than one full-timer, potential employers do not care about how wise or moral you are, they only care about cold hard math. When your boss's boss makes more money in one year than you would in six decades, well, I'll agree that that does sound like an issue of character, but not on the employee's part.

I spent my whole life being wise and making good, responsible decisions. Studying hard, saving up, living frugally. What has it gotten me but far less than the idiots and cheaters around me?

I briefly referenced James 5:4-6 earlier, but I think it's worth quoting here. It's been on my mind a lot lately.

"Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you."

That, as well as Proverbs 22:16-23, Amos 5:10-15 and 8:4-8, and Luke 20:46-47, is my answer to Christians who try to tell people that they need to learn to better tolerate unjust treatment, rather than condemning the injustice itself. Consider also Romans 12:15:

"Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep."

I know there's nothing you can do to make my life better. I know we're all pretty powerless against an unjust world. All I'm asking is that you stop making it worse by trying to tell me this is all my own fault. Please stop trying to tell me I'm wrong to be upset about this.

Rohelf wrote:Okay, let's see, that's "disagreement must mean you didn't understand me," "I know what you need/want better than you do," and "the problem isn't actually the problem, the problem is you/your attitude."  Oh, wait, are we not playing Lame Evangelical Excuses Bingo?  That's a shame.  I almost had a winner.

Consider also Romans 12:15:

"Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep."

I know there's nothing you can do to make my life better.  I know we're all pretty powerless against an unjust world.  All I'm asking is that you stop making it worse by trying to tell me this is all my own fault.  Please stop trying to tell me I'm wrong to be upset about this.

Kim, I think based on the way you are characterizing me and my response here, you've missed the intent, as well as the content of some of my words, as well as parts of the ISOT segment. I get the impression that some parts of what I've said/written in both cases blare loudly in your ears, while others parts you seem to not notice. And based on your emphasis in what you're expressing here, and also on multiple private conversations we've had, I know these are deeply personal issues for you. Which is why I have been trying to point you toward getting deeply personal help from good Christian people/community in your local area.

I could go back and, point by point, try to re-explain what I see in James. I can do exegesis here, I can do a bit of teaching. But I can't effectively give you the care and attention you need as you wrestle through these verses and these issues as they relate to your individual life and circumstances. As we've just seen firsthand, this medium doesn't serve well for good communication and interpretation when real hurt and suffering are involved.

Although text fails to convey it, I'm really sorry for what you have been experiencing in life. I've told you that many times privately. Right now, the best way I think I can facilitate truly useful help in your life is to direct you to a good local community of believers, which I don't think you have experienced yet. I'd love to help you find that, but I don't think continuing this particular exchange here is going to be beneficial to anyone.