My Justice League Thoughts

I don't have the time or energy to put together a proper review blog post or video, but here are some thoughts in response to Justice League. This is completely fresh. I have no idea what anyone else thinks of it. I haven't even listened to Paeter's review yet (but will shortly).

Oh ... and spoilers......









All in all, I enjoyed Justice League a lot. It had a strong beginning, but I think it got a bit weaker toward the end. It didn’t have the same emotional depth that I found in Man of Steel, BVS and Wonder Woman, but there was still a little depth to it.

Things I loved

• Seeing the team together. It was fun re-uniting with old favourites like Batman and Wonder Woman, but also a lot of fun to see newcomers come into their own.
  
• Jason Momoa did a great job as Aquaman. I liked him as Ronan in Stargate Atlantis, and this felt like quite a similar character.
  
• I enjoyed Ezra Miller’s Flash. I really liked Barry’s vulnerability. His hesitance to go into battle made the character feel real. This was welcome, since the character was used for a lot of comedic moments.
  
• The continued development of the relationship between Batman and Superman. Bruce’s realisation that the world needed Superman more than it needed him. Not because Superman has powers, and Batman doesn’t, but because of Superman’s humanity.
  
• Tying Cyborg’s origin into the Kryptonian technology from the crashed ship was kinda cool. I liked how he felt out of control, that he was slowly becoming the next invader. I felt there was a lot more they could have done with his character, but I guess you’ve only got so much time in a n ensemble film.
  
• The Lord-Of-The-Rings thing with the ancient war, and the three mother boxes going to the three major races was kinda cool - if a bit derivative. I liked it anyway.
  
• The way they explained Superman’s resurrection was cool. It fell naturally into the plot, and didn’t feel tacked-on. Superman’s aggressive confusion after he came back to life was also nicely done.
  
• Alien plants growing in Russia after he unity device was stopped.
  

Things that could have been improved

• I wanted the discovery of the third mother box (belonging to the tribes of men) to be a greater mystery. Maybe a bit of an Indiana Jones type thing. It felt like it showed up too conveniently.
  
• Clark Kent is back. No explanation. They should have left that out and either: 1) Not had Clark anymore, or 2) Saved it for a later movie when they had chance to give a decent and believable explanation (like they did in the comics)
  
• This was the most comedic movie in the DCEU so far. I didn’t mind the humour, and really enjoyed a lot of it, but it was just a bit more humour than was necessary. And to be honest, the best comedic moments were spoiled by the trailers.
  
• Stuff that get left out. Where was the black Superman suit that was hinted at in early marketing? Some cool scenes from the trailer were left out.
  
• Superman felt just a little too … unreal. I know coming back from the head has changed him, given him a new outlook on life. Many were saying that by the end of Justice League, his character would have developed to the point of being the Superman we all know. This isn’t a bad idea, but I guess I just really miss the grittier Superman from Man of Steel and BVS.
  
• We didn’t see any kind of public reaction to Superman’s return.
  

As an alien invasion story, this kinda failed (compared to MOS, which was an excellent first contact / alien invasion story), but this isn’t really a sci-fi story. It’s a fantasy (with some sci-fi trappings). So that’s okay.

In a lot of ways, this felt like the end of a book. Marvel’s approach has been to tell individual character stories that sometimes converge (with a greater narrative very slowly peeking through). DC’s approach seems to have been to just tell one story, with each movie begin another chapter. Some chapters focus on one character. Some chapters focus on a couple. Each chapter led naturally to the next. This felt like the last chapter, that we’ve closed out book 1.

I’m interested to see where the DCEU takes us next. I just hope there’s still a serious weighty “Man Of Steel” or two out there for me, but I worry that I’m in the minority. Kinda sad that the most dedicated fans who’ve stuck by these films all the way through could end up being the losers.On the other hand, I got to share this movie with my kids, which was special. I think there’s a balance out there, a middle-ground that will satisfy everyone. Wonder Woman was pretty close. Justice League was a little too much the other way for me.

AdamCollings wrote: I think there’s a balance out there, a middle-ground that will satisfy everyone. Wonder Woman was pretty close. Justice League was a little too much the other way for me.

This.

Wonder Woman wasn't my favorite of the DC movies, but I loved it and so did many who had issues with BvS & MoS. The film makers had probably already committed enough to the direction of this final edit to not be influenced by Wonder Woman's success, but I'd love it if they used Wonder Woman as the model of balance between weight and humor going forward. (And that they not limit themselves to a 2 hour run time.)

I went and saw this in the theatre with my two younger siblings, and honestly, I found it to be mediocre at best. The light tone just doesn't fit the DCEU in my opinion, as DC is known for being the darker superhero genre in general. I look at the movie Justice League Dark and I think to myself, "Why couldn't this have been like that one?" It's just kind of sad that a direct to DVD animated movie topped a multi-million dollar film.

I literally hate Ezra Miller as the Flash. And it wasn't me being racist, in fact, I was kind of digging the whole idea of a multi-ethnic cast, but the moment he stepped into the room and cracked his first joke, he was annoying me. I don't know if it was the voice, the style, or the fact that the TV show is *so* much better, but this Flash didn't do it for me. Plus, they even kind of copied the theme from the show, which is pretty low considering the fact that they literally had millions of dollars to make this movie with.

The characters are undeveloped, oddly vague, and the movie seemed to just throw Wonder Woman in whenever they were at a loss for what to do. The "crime" being shown at the beginning of the film following Superman's death was minor at best, and didn't feel at all on the same level of the Dark Knight films. And on that note, where are the civilians? We keep returning to just one family like they are the entire population of the town that is in danger. It just feels like no one is in actual danger. The villain is one-dimensional and frankly, horribly animated and written, and it just makes it worse having recently seen Hela rock the Marvel universe in Thor: Ragnarok.

But yeah, if this is DC's answer to trying to one-up Marvel, it's a pretty pathetic one in my opinion. There are genuinely fun moments, but they are inconsistent. Wonder Woman, Batman and Aquaman can't run the show by themselves, you know?

Though I will admit, Cyborg grew on me, and I actually liked the whole premise of his 'gifts.'

ProtectTheAlphaWolf wrote:this Flash didn't do it for me. Plus, they even kind of copied the theme from the show,

They did? Wow! Danny Elfman was BUSY! He used his old Michael Keaton Batman theme and I heard he put some of John Williams' Superman theme in there, too! So now we just need to go back and listen for an orchestral version of the 70's Wonder Woman theme! ("You're a wonder, Wonder Wo-maaaaaaan!")

ProtectTheAlphaWolf wrote:The light tone just doesn't fit the DCEU in my opinion, as DC is known for being the darker superhero genre in general.

I had to read this sentence twice. Is that really the way things are now? Because that's exactly the opposite of my experience. On the other hand, I basically dropped out of mainstream comics in 2009; the only interaction I've had with Marvel and DC has been through movies and television since then.

Still, Marvel and DC have always tried to be noticeably different from each other, and it wouldn't be the first time it's been like that. In the 60s, Marvel wanted characters with real-world problems and defining character flaws. In the 70s, DC decided to try their hand at horror stories and wrestled with social issues. In the 80s, Marvel defined their entire universe as a world that hates and fears their heroes, even Captain America; stories often ended with pyrrhic victory or tragic denouement. Also in the 80s, DC handed down the directive that the main books were to be less silly but never hopeless and began to separate their titles by branding Doom Patrol and Swamp Thing as "Mature Audiences". In the 90s, Marvel popularized the term "grim-dark" with Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Punisher, and more. DC funneled all of their dark stories into the Vertigo line, wanting their main books to be more heroic and grandly cosmic (Superman) or pulp adventure (Batman).

In the 00s, Kurt Busiek wrote the JLA/Avengers crossover. In the book, Captain America observes that people on the JLA world worship their heroes as if they were gods or treat them as celebrities, looking to them for hope and salvation. Superman notes that people on the Avengers world seem terrified that their heroes will turn on them at a moment's notice, living in fear of those who are different. The decade ended with DC rebooting their continuity by defeating Darkseid's ultimate triumph with the power of storytelling and hope for the future (Final Crisis). At the end of the decade, Marvel assassinated Captain America JFK style and placed their world's heroes under government crackdown and permanent suspicion (Civil War).

That's where I left things. To hear Marvel described as light and DC as dark seems very strange to me.

Paeter wrote:

ProtectTheAlphaWolf wrote:this Flash didn't do it for me. Plus, they even kind of copied the theme from the show,

They did? Wow! Danny Elfman was BUSY! He used his old Michael Keaton Batman theme and I heard he put some of John Williams' Superman theme in there, too! So now we just need to go back and listen for an orchestral version of the 70's Wonder Woman theme! ("You're a wonder, Wonder Wo-maaaaaaan!")

Oh, oh! Throw in the animated Teen Titans theme for Cyborg! "Teen Ti-tans! Let's go!"

And for Aquaman...um...did that failed Smallville spinoff of his have a theme? There's a deep cut.

I liked the movie enough that I want to add it to my collection. It wasn't epic like the first Avengers movie felt when I saw it, probably because A) lack of a long build-up, B) mandatory shortened runtime, and C) weak villain. But considering that I was expecting it to be a train wreck, I came out pleasantly surprised.

It reminded me of Age of Ultron in that it felt like it was missing some scenes. But I thought that it still felt more complete than AoU, Suicide Squad, or the Batman v Superman theatrical cut.

Paeter - A strange side effect of my listening to your reviews is that I now view these DC movies through your eyes. So I spent most of this movie thinking, Oh, Paeter won't like that...or that.... And then I argue with myself internally: "I don't think that aspect is bad." "But Paeter won't like it, so it must be bad!" It's weird, because I don't think like that when I watch Marvel movies or anything else. It's like I really want the DC movies to fit your ideals before anything else.

Mindspike - Nice history lesson! I knew there were differences in tones between the two companies, but I'd never seen it laid out like that.