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    Tom King's Batman talks about God

    AGoodReed
    AGoodReed


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    Tom King's Batman talks about God Empty Tom King's Batman talks about God

    Post  AGoodReed January 19th 2021, 8:18 pm

    Hey, anyone remember when I posted this in 2018?

    AGoodReed wrote:Apparently, it's now canon that Thomas Wayne was a Christian, or at least a churchgoer who knew the Bible stories, but Bruce lost his faith when his parents were killed.

    Michael Foust for ChristianHeadlines.com wrote:In the newest comic from DC, Batman #53, the Dark Knight/Bruce Wayne is “sequestered for questioning as part of a lawsuit that Mr. Freeze is filing against Batman” when Wayne asks a woman about her cross necklace, according to Inverse.com. That’s when Wayne has a flashback, which reveals he abandoned Christianity as a child.

    His father, Thomas Wayne, apparently raised Bruce Wayne as a Christian but the younger Wayne drifted from the faith after his parents were murdered.

    “Do you believe in God?” a woman asks Wayne.

    “I used to,” Batman responds. “My father was a Christian. He held hallow the immortal soul, heaven, the Father and the Son. Giving your will to your Lord, trusting Him with that will. He wanted me to believe, too. But he wanted me to come to it on my own. He went to church. He told me all the stories. Talked a lot about what we can control, what we can’t.”

    But after his parents were murdered, Bruce Wayne became upset.

    “I put aside believing in a deity. Or believing in anything my father thought had saved him.”

    Wayne wonders why God had let his parents die.

    “I couldn’t really see that anything had saved him,” Wayne says. “I left Gotham. For a while. I searched for something solid to put my faith in.”

    That’s when he became Batman.

    “I waited for something to find me,” Wayne says, concluding the flashback.

    Then, in the comments section...

    Brian McCoppin wrote:In the second half of the story you get the impression he is returning to his faith. He says that "God blesses your soul by Grace " He compares himself to Job and the story's last words are Job 1:21 "Blessed be the name of the Lord."


    Well, I've finally read that whole issue! Actually, I've read King's whole run on Batman, but this is the part I really want to talk about on a Christian forum.

    But before I do, I want to know how much I'm allowed to reprint here. Like, I'm pretty sure copyright laws would not permit me to post all 19 or 20 pages of that part of the issue here. I don't think the forum would even let me insert that many pictures into one post. I do actually have all of the words typed out (it's mostly Bruce Wayne talking, but there is another character who says a few things), so I could post the whole "transcript" here for everyone's perusal. But would that be legal?

    Otherwise, I'm going to have to put some work into paraphrasing everything while still maintaining the meaning. I really think it's an interesting look into Batman's soul.
    Paeter
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    Tom King's Batman talks about God Empty Re: Tom King's Batman talks about God

    Post  Paeter January 20th 2021, 12:34 pm

    AGoodReed wrote:

    But before I do, I want to know how much I'm allowed to reprint here. Like, I'm pretty sure copyright laws would not permit me to post all 19 or 20 pages of that part of the issue here. I don't think the forum would even let me insert that many pictures into one post. I do actually have all of the words typed out (it's mostly Bruce Wayne talking, but there is another character who says a few things), so I could post the whole "transcript" here for everyone's perusal. But would that be legal?

    Otherwise, I'm going to have to put some work into paraphrasing everything while still maintaining the meaning. I really think it's an interesting look into Batman's soul.


    I think the transcript easily falls into Fair Use because the purpose is to provide commentary on it. Some of the panels would likely be fine for the same reason. (It's why I have no reservations about doing my Essential Issues videos.) Obviously, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm confident you'd be fine to post just a few relevant pages/panels and the transcript of the rest that is needed for context.


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    AGoodReed
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    Tom King's Batman talks about God Empty Re: Tom King's Batman talks about God

    Post  AGoodReed January 20th 2021, 7:49 pm

    [I think a larger font will make this easier to read.

    So the story is that Bruce Wayne has finagled his way onto the jury of a case against Mr. Freeze. Batman is the one who caught Freeze and got him to confess to a murder, but as the story goes on, we see that Batman may not have been thinking clearly. He'd just taken a huge shot to his emotional well-being (I'll spoil it at the bottom if you're interested), and in his grief and frustration, he basically tortured Freeze into confessing and also overlooked something in the victim's autopsy that would have put Freeze's involvement in doubt.

    Meanwhile, everyone else on the jury thinks Freeze is guilty, so Bruce is trying to convince them to change their minds without revealing his secret identity. During the conversation, he points out a cross on one of the more outspoken jury members' necklace.]

    MISSY: I believe in God. I've attended my church for 50 years. Is that a problem?

    BRUCE: No. Never.

    MISSY: Good.

    BRUCE: But you've asked me to show here today that Batman could have erred in this case. That his mistakes perhaps led to Freeze being falsely accused. And so I find your cross…your belief, interesting. Vital, perhaps.

    Tom King's Batman talks about God Panel_13


    My father was a Christian. He held hallow the immortal soul, Heaven, the Father and the Son. Giving your will to your Lord, trusting him with that will. He wanted me to believe, too. But he wanted me to come to it on my own. We went to church. He told me all the stories. Talked a lot about what we can control, what we can't.

    Tom King's Batman talks about God Panel_14

    I was upset. I…put aside believing in a…deity. Or believing in anything my father thought had saved him. I couldn't really see that anything had saved him. I left Gotham for a while. I searched for something solid to put my faith in. I asked a great deal of questions. I paid for some answers. But I didn't find anything out there. As far as I went. So I came home…and I waited for something to find me.

    We're all here because of this city. We all care enough not to throw out our summons. Enough to come here and sit through this and decide this. And if you're a citizen of Gotham, then you know…this is a place for monsters. Demons.

    And there he is. Every shadow is met. Every horror put down. As citizens of Gotham we watch as he beats back the bullies. We see our brothers rescued, our sisters returned. A man with a bat on his chest keeps us safe.

    After my parents died…I sought transcendence. I found Batman.

    MISSY: I…Bruce…. Your argument for why Batman may have made mistakes with Freeze…is that you think he's God?

    BRUCE: If you define God as…the infallible, the responsible … the one who determines life and death. Then yes. That is my argument. I thought he was God.

    How many…of you here are here because of him? Without his help, in this city…how many of you would be in a grave?

    Tom King's Batman talks about God Panel_15

    BRUCE: So then it makes sense. It's why we -- why you, Missy -- why you have to see Freeze as guilty. We have no right to sit here in judgment of Batman. He is perfect. We are not. Our lives are his. We worship. We do not inspect.

    Let Freeze go and rot. Ignore any doubt. Batman has decided. And his will is our law. God is above us. And he wears a cape.

    So that's what I thought. Why I understand what you think. And are thinking. I felt that for…almost for forever. I still feel it. Tugging at me. Right now. Trust in him. Trust that he was right. He's so good. He's the world's greatest detective. And who are you?

    You ever read the Book of Job? That what God said to him, right? God tore this guy's life away. Burned his farm and his children. And Job gets a little angry and asks God why. And God says, "I created the mountains and the miracles. And you're questioning me? You. Who are you?"

    Tom King's Batman talks about God Panel_16

    WOMAN: Bruce?

    BRUCE: I got…I was hurt. Recently. I had for years put every bit of myself into this Batman. Because he was good. Good enough to protect me from all the pain. My mother, my father, this life. The fear of everything just…breaking. And it worked, and I worked, I was working. After so many years, I had something I never thought I'd have. I was…I was happy.

    And then it all fell…everything falls. And I fell. I screamed. As loud as I could. And my scream was a prayer. To him. To the mask, and the symbol, and the rope, and the fist. I begged for him to catch me. Tears in my eyes. I fell and I begged. And I waited. Please, please, please! Batman! Help me!

    And I…I'm still waiting. If I don't…If I can't see the…truth. I'll always be…waiting.
    He's not God. He's not. He tries…he does…I know. And he fails, and he tries again. But he can't…He does not provide solace from pain. He cannot give you hope for the eternal. He cannot comfort you for the love you lost.

    Tom King's Batman talks about God Panel_17

    We sit here today to judge Mr. Freeze. We, the twelve of us, have power over is freedom. His life. That is god-like power. It is. But though we possess such sovereignty over one man…we know still that we ourselves are not sovereign. We are righteously constrained by our own humanity. And so we approach our sacred task with some humility. Knowing our wisdom will forever be scarred by our perspective. We will do our best, and we will pray that it is enough.

    If you know that, then you know him. he's not perfect. He's just us. But in a leather bat suit. Our decision here must be beyond a reasonable doubt. And facts show that if we doubt Batman…we doubt this case.

    And so my argument is this. No matter what he does…Behind the cape and the cowl and the bat everything…he's a d*** person! And because he's a person, a man, he can err. We are not Job talking to God. We are citizens of this city speaking of another citizen. However good he is, we can be just as good. However flawed we are, he can be just as flawed.

    And after all that, please remember this. In that autopsy room. Going after Freeze. Hitting Freeze. He was distracted by something. Freeze said it. He wasn't…himself. He made mistakes. Mistakes he shouldn't have made.

    Tom King's Batman talks about God Panel_18


    The reason Batman wasn't thinking clearly was because…:
    Paeter
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    Tom King's Batman talks about God Empty Re: Tom King's Batman talks about God

    Post  Paeter January 21st 2021, 2:04 pm

    Interesting stuff!

    I appreciate that he recognizes the difference between questioning Batman & questioning God.

    I also wonder if Bruce's understanding of the book of Job reflects Bruce's understanding or the author's.

    Either way, it sounds a bit like an understanding of Job developed in a vacuum, from just reading the book privately, even becoming familiar with it through multiple readings, but not seeking an informed understanding of it.


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