Christian Geek Central Forums

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

The Online Community Of Christian Geek Central


3 posters

    Re-Watching Man Of Steel

    Paeter
    Paeter
    Admin


    Posts : 5709
    Activity : 8031
    Geek-Cred : 60
    Join date : 2010-02-17
    Age : 46
    Location : Mesa, AZ

    Re-Watching Man Of Steel Empty Re-Watching Man Of Steel

    Post  Paeter March 17th 2021, 12:16 am

    Been a year or so I think, but watched this movie again tonight as part of my lead-up to the Snyder Cut.

    Since its release, I've placed Batman V Superman above this movie as my favorite of all time. But tonight Man Of Steel may have retaken the crown.

    I think I was even more moved and enthralled by the emotion, symbolism and spectacular action than I have ever been watching this movie before.

    I certainly noticed some Christ parallels I hadn't before, both those certainly intended by the creators and some possibly unintended.

    I've said a number of times now that there is no objectivity while evaluating the quality of entertainment. You measure based on what you bring with you to the viewing.

    After watching this again tonight, I wish so much I could give to everyone else those things I brought with me that made this possibly the most impactful movie I've ever watched.

    Wow.


    _________________
    -Seek The Truth!

    www.spiritblade.com
    AdamCollings
    AdamCollings


    Posts : 1332
    Activity : 1755
    Geek-Cred : 11
    Join date : 2013-12-10
    Age : 46
    Location : Tasmania, Australia

    Re-Watching Man Of Steel Empty Re: Re-Watching Man Of Steel

    Post  AdamCollings March 17th 2021, 6:01 pm

    Oh, you're speaking my language, Paeter.
    While I love both movies, Man of Steel has always held the top spot for me personally.
    I signed up to Rotten Tomatoes and IMDB last night, so that I can post reviews of The Snyder Cut.  I decided to post a review of MOS. Looking through some of the other reviews, I am flabbergasted. Did we see the same movie?

    I'd be interested to hear the Christ parallels and symbolism you've seen, particularly the un-intended ones.

    The most obvious that stick out off the top of my head are
    * Being sent to earth by his father to live as a human
    * The death of his human father
    * The stained glass behind his head in the church scene
    * The church scene in general - kind of a Gethsemane moment for him
    * His willingness to sacrifice himself to Zod for mankind
    AGoodReed
    AGoodReed


    Posts : 527
    Activity : 835
    Geek-Cred : 4
    Join date : 2018-06-25
    Age : 40
    Location : Missouri

    Re-Watching Man Of Steel Empty Re: Re-Watching Man Of Steel

    Post  AGoodReed March 20th 2021, 7:21 pm

    The crucifix pose he makes as he leave the spaceship at one point was always a bit much for me.
    Paeter
    Paeter
    Admin


    Posts : 5709
    Activity : 8031
    Geek-Cred : 60
    Join date : 2010-02-17
    Age : 46
    Location : Mesa, AZ

    Re-Watching Man Of Steel Empty Re: Re-Watching Man Of Steel

    Post  Paeter March 22nd 2021, 1:35 pm

    That would be a project or a watch-along commentary to list all that I've noticed. But just two quick ones for now:

    Intended: When Superman tells the general "do what you have to do, general" is almost certainly a reworking of Jesus saying to Judas, "what you have come to do, do it quickly".

    Unintended: (I talk about this more in my spoiler reactions to Justice League) Superman is a symbol of what Kryptonians can be when given the power to choose instead of being bred for a pre-determined purpose. Jor-el says that Kal-el can essentially be the same for humanity: a symbol of what they can be if they choose to. And this is what many non-Christians patronizingly praise Jesus as. A moral example (but nothing more). However, we can also see the parallel of Superman to Jesus in terms of Jesus' resurrection as the "firstfruits" of all those who will "choose" to accept the rescue of Jesus, and then be promised to ultimately become like him in his resurrection. Choice is still the vital mechanism. But the parallels go further than the filmmakers likely intend.

    When people choose to allow Superman to rescue them, they first escape destruction, but then he also serves as a moral example of what they can become if they "choose" to, and possibly what they can physically achieve in some sense if humanity will all "choose" to be the best versions of themselves and advance as a race, unhindered by their selfishness. (HOW they are supposed to go from choice to actuality is never explained. It's unrealistically optimistic humanism.)

    When people allow Jesus to rescue them, they first escape destruction, and then he serves as a model, both of what we SHOULD be in this life and what we WILL be at the resurrection.

    So in a nutshell, the unintended parallel is "humans becoming like Superman=Believers resurrected like Jesus".


    _________________
    -Seek The Truth!

    www.spiritblade.com
    AGoodReed
    AGoodReed


    Posts : 527
    Activity : 835
    Geek-Cred : 4
    Join date : 2018-06-25
    Age : 40
    Location : Missouri

    Re-Watching Man Of Steel Empty Re: Re-Watching Man Of Steel

    Post  AGoodReed March 23rd 2021, 11:44 am

    This is probably an unpopular opinion, but as much as I like Man of Steel and Batman v Superman, I tend to roll my eyes whenever the stories and visuals try connecting Superman to Jesus. Clark in the church in front of the stained glass window, Superman making the crucifix pose as he leaves the spaceship, the crosses in the background when Lois holds Superman's body after he's killed - it's all so heavy-handed to me. Personally, I don't like seeing people compared to Jesus, especially fictional people, because Jesus is unique. I feel like it cheapens the Gospel to try to make our superheroes parallel him, even incompletely. (It would be straight-up blasphemy to make one parallel him completely, of course.) I know Richard Donner was into seeing Superman as a Christ figure, sent to earth as a savior, as well. But if the story doesn't come out and say, "Sure, Superman has some passing similarities to Christ's life, but he can't save your soul," in some way*, then I'd rather they not try to fit him into that mold.

    *Perhaps Superman saying something like, "I'm powerful, but I'm no god. I can save your body from Brainiac, but your soul is in someone else's hands."
    Paeter
    Paeter
    Admin


    Posts : 5709
    Activity : 8031
    Geek-Cred : 60
    Join date : 2010-02-17
    Age : 46
    Location : Mesa, AZ

    Re-Watching Man Of Steel Empty Re: Re-Watching Man Of Steel

    Post  Paeter March 24th 2021, 1:28 pm

    AGoodReed wrote:Personally, I don't like seeing people compared to Jesus, especially fictional people, because Jesus is unique. I feel like it cheapens the Gospel to try to make our superheroes parallel him, even incompletely. (It would be straight-up blasphemy to make one parallel him completely, of course.) I know Richard Donner was into seeing Superman as a Christ figure, sent to earth as a savior, as well. But if the story doesn't come out and say, "Sure, Superman has some passing similarities to Christ's life, but he can't save your soul," in some way*, then I'd rather they not try to fit him into that mold.

    *Perhaps Superman saying something like, "I'm powerful, but I'm no god. I can save your body from Brainiac, but your soul is in someone else's hands."

    I'm sure there are many Christians who can relate to what you're thinking and feeling. I remember, soon after Superman Returns released, interacting with a Christian I really respect who felt similarly about Superman's "resurrection" in that movie.

    I don't see the "cheapening" aspect, personally. Jesus used fictional characters, as in the story of the Prodigal Son and the Vineyard owner, to parallel God the Father and Jesus. But maybe what feels wrong is the idea of creators using these parallels when they themselves have no personal respect for Yahweh.

    For me when Superman is used this way(as he has been MANY times), I don't know the creator's intent in drawing these parallels so blatantly. The intent may not be "comparison" to Jesus but rather "pointing" to Jesus(if the creator is a Christian or agnostic with "respect" for Jesus). Or neither. Honestly, I think most creators who draw these parallels with Superman do it mostly because they know it will resonate powerfully with people. They aren't saying "Jesus is merely like a Superhero", or "We don't need Jesus, we have Superman" or "Superman is a symbol that points to the truth of Jesus". I doubt they have anything like that kind of specific intentionality. They likely just recognize the parallels to Jesus as a dramatic tool that will elicit a response. That being the case, their motives could selfishly be about creating a more marketable product. I could be wrong. Maybe Snyder and others using these parallels each have a very specific agenda or message in mind. They just never seem to come out and say what it is. But it's very likely that, whatever the motive, it is not to glorify Jesus in most cases.

    Whatever the case, I am perfectly content to let God use a non-believer, with whatever selfish motives he may or may not have, to remind me of who Jesus is, what he has done, and what he has promised me. If anything, when that happens I recognize again God's sovereignty and ability to use whoever and whatever he wants to glorify himself. Zack Snyder is far less the artist responsible in that moment, and his motives become irrelevant, as I recognize the Holy Spirit orchestrating something through Snyder's work.

    It's really worth mentioning, however, that enjoying these stories in this way means not enjoying them as a "what if" fantasy, but switching to a different mode, mentally. At least in the moments that focus on Christ parallels. A lot of geek fiction is appealing in how it leads us to excitedly ask "Ooh, what if this were true or could become true somehow?" Much of science fiction appeals to this part of us. For many, the appeal of video games and comic books is the power fantasy we can experience while playing or reading. But when Christ parallels begin to emerge, I DO make a shift. I'm not absorbing the experience to indulge in power fantasy or to imagine the presented scenario becoming real at some point. I switch, without conscious effort at this point, to engaging with it as a symbolic story or story moment.

    Now, if that mental switch and angle of engagement did not happen, and I stayed in the mode of looking for Superman to fulfill my power fantasies or "what if scenario" fantasies, I would probably be offended, since I know it should not be my fantasy to live out the redemptive work of Jesus or to hope and dream that an alien will come along that can take Jesus' place as my rescuer.

    Now to be clear, I can totally respect someone going to Superhero entertainment for power/what-if fantasy fulfillment. It's great for that. And if a given Christian is not really interested in trying to make the mental shift I've described, I can understand them having a negative reaction to Christ parallels. I'd guess for many it would be feel very unnatural and forced. But in thinking about this common issue you've brought up, it made me kind of sort through and realize that there are default, often unrecognized mental states (or expectations & desires) we bring to experiences like these that can likely have a big influence, rather than it merely hanging on artistic intent.



    _________________
    -Seek The Truth!

    www.spiritblade.com

    Sponsored content


    Re-Watching Man Of Steel Empty Re: Re-Watching Man Of Steel

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is May 8th 2024, 6:57 pm