Marvel Phase 4 Movies and Disney+ Shows So Far (Endgame Spoilers)

Spoilers for Avengers: Endgame abound.

Looking at https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/29/entertainment/avengers-endgame-marvel-phase-4-what-happens-next/index.html and https://screenrant.com/avengers-endgame-disney-plus-shows-set-up-how/ for my info. And also Google searches.

So, technically, Spider-Man: Far From Home is the end of Phase 3 (like how Ant-Man was the end of Phase 2), but I'm going to list it anyway. Also, I'm not counting the X-Men films because they're still not part of the MCU yet.

These are what have been announced so far...

MOVIES:
- Spider-Man: Far From Home - Spidey meets Nick Fury and Mysterio debuts
- Doctor Strange 2 - I assume Baron Mordo will be the main villain
- Black Panther 2 - I'm seeing rumors of Namor the Sub-Mariner being the antagonist
- Guardians of the Galaxy 3 - Maybe with fat Thor? Maybe with Quill trying to win Gamora's favor again? Maybe with Adam Warlock?
- Shang-Chi - obscure Chinese-American superhero, probably being rejuvenated to entice Chinese audiences
- The Eternals - an immortal race who lived on earth and shaped its history or something. Angelina Jolie is rumored to have a role.
- Black Widow prequel - takes place just after the first Avengers film?

Disney+ Shows:
- Falcon (Captain America?) and the Winter Soldier -
- Loki and the Tesseract - I think this will be the Loki who stole the Tesseract during the time travel scene in Endgame jumping around and causing mischief throughout history.
- Hawkeye - Hawkeye trains Kate Bishop (not his daughter) to be the new Hawkeye
- WandaVision - so I guess Vision will come back somehow.

Anyone looking forward to any of these in particular?

Hoo, boy. Mixed feelings here. Really looking forward to Comic Con, where I hope they will announce things more exciting than some of these.

AGoodReed wrote:
- Spider-Man: Far From Home - Spidey meets Nick Fury and Mysterio debuts

I'm in! I think they need to lock in the Tom Holland Spidey and make him the new center (read: Iron Man) of the MCU.

AGoodReed wrote:
- Doctor Strange 2 - I assume Baron Mordo will be the main villain

Great! Enjoyed the first one, loved him being in his full power in Avengers, ready for THAT Strange now in a solo movie!

AGoodReed wrote:
- Black Panther 2 - I'm seeing rumors of Namor the Sub-Mariner being the antagonist

Take my money! LOVED Black Panther, as many did. Namor could be very interesting. But holy crap, they will need to do a costume re-design. I think a dude wearing nothing but speedos is too much to ask of audiences (at least perhaps heterosexual male audiences) AND an actor's fitness/diet habits for the length of his involvement in the MCU (which could be awhile for this character)!

AGoodReed wrote:
- Guardians of the Galaxy 3 - Maybe with fat Thor? Maybe with Quill trying to win Gamora's favor again? Maybe with Adam Warlock?

Will be giving these movies another chance soon, with hopefully the benefit of adjusted expectations and the gravity that Infinity War/Endgame grants this franchise. REALLY curious about the Thor situation. Ragnarok rejuvinated his character for audiences (not for me, but for most, I think) and so this seems an odd time to make him a guest in another franchise instead of continuing with more solo movies. But the play between Thor and Quill could also be the perfect fit for the direction of both properties. Color me curious!

AGoodReed wrote:
- Shang-Chi - obscure Chinese-American superhero, probably being rejuvenated to entice Chinese audiences

This is my biggest reason for temptation to call it the "MC Who?", now. I'm thinking, what about Sunfire? A MUCH more recognizable Asian Marvel character! But as you point out, Shang-Chi is Chinese(Sunfire is Japanese), which makes him more commercially appealing. So that makes this choice seem like a combination of demographic box-checking AND money-chasing. I get it. That's fine. But I really hope they recognize the need to make us care about this obscure, largely unknown character, apart from his ethnic background. I hope to be as pleasantly surprised as I was about Black Panther, but we'll see!

AGoodReed wrote:
- The Eternals - an immortal race who lived on earth and shaped its history or something. Angelina Jolie is rumored to have a role.

More MC Who here. I've HEARD of the Eternals, and that's about it. And I'm a comic nerd. Even most geek viewers may not have any idea who these character are. So again, I hope they can help me care.

AGoodReed wrote:
- Black Widow prequel - takes place just after the first Avengers film?

A recent rumor suggests this could be a prequel that also sets up a new Black Widow for the MC Who. We'll see!

AGoodReed wrote:
Disney+ Shows:
-  Falcon (Captain America?) and the Winter Soldier -
- Loki and the Tesseract - I think this will be the Loki who stole the Tesseract during the time travel scene in Endgame jumping around and causing mischief throughout history.
- Hawkeye - Hawkeye trains Kate Bishop (not his daughter) to be the new Hawkeye
- WandaVision - so I guess Vision will come back somehow.

I'm mystified as to why THESE are the properties on TV, instead of continuing in the films, where they have earned mainstream fans. I'm also curious about the interplay between these shows and the films. Moving them to TV feels like sending them out to slowly die. I think all of them (except Loki) should stay in the films to help us connect with the new Avengers line-up.

I also learned recently that Ghost Rider and some other supernatural Marvel characters are getting Hulu shows. Again, this seems like the wrong move. Doctor Strange shows that supernatural can work in the MCU. I think they should have rebooted Ghost Rider in films and that he's a bit wasted as a TV show that will likely not be connected to the MCU like the films are.

Anyway, as I said, ComiCon is coming! Looking forward to what might be revealed!

Honestly, I think it's too much. I'd like it if they slowed down and released a new MCU movie every 18-24 months. Take time to craft good stories and characters instead of trying to print money every year.

As far as Disney+ goes, I think we'll see the whole service cancelled within 5 years. Disney is stretching themselves thin and I think die-hard Disney fans aren't enough to sustain their streaming service.

Yikes. To pick selected bits from above:

The Eternals. Thanos was an Eternal. And I agree, they're going to have to work hard to get audiences to care.

Ghost Rider. This will likely be the muscle car Ghost Rider from Agents of SHIELD.

Black Panther. I thought Killgrave outshone everyone in this movie. I wanted him to win. A sequel is not something I'm interested in.

Shang Chi. I want a good wuxia film so bad I can taste it. And I loved Master of the Martial Arts back in the day.

I'm okay with Disney continuing to print Marvel money, but I expect future films to be much less interconnected than Phase 1-3. Disney is banking hard on their streaming app, pulling their content from other platforms. Unfortunately, I agree with John Wilkerson, with Disney owning shares in Hulu, I expect the two services to be combined within about 5 years. On the other hand, CBS is stubbornly refusing to give up their own service, and their catalog is much thinner than the combined Disney/Fox catalog they'll be hosting.

mindspike wrote:Black Panther. I thought Killgrave outshone everyone in this movie. I wanted him to win. A sequel is not something I'm interested in.

Killgrave? You wanted Jessica Jones' villain to beat Black Panther?

But, seriously, you wanted Killmonger to win? DIdn't he want to use Wakanda's military to go to war against white people?

mindspike wrote:

Black Panther. I thought Killgrave outshone everyone in this movie. I wanted him to win. A sequel is not something I'm interested in.

On a similar note: Although I really enjoyed Black Panther, I have serious concerns about how they can make a sequel work. I can't help but wonder if they hit a great recipe they don't understand with the first one, and that many viewers liked it for different reasons that will not be able to be replicated in a sequel. He has come in to his own as King, the Father-Son beats have pretty much been played out, the great villain they had will not be returning... I don't know. I don't consider it a given that I (or even most viewers) will enjoy the sequel anywhere near as much as the first one.

AGoodReed wrote:

mindspike wrote:Black Panther. I thought Killgrave outshone everyone in this movie. I wanted him to win. A sequel is not something I'm interested in.

Killgrave? You wanted Jessica Jones' villain to beat Black Panther?

But, seriously, you wanted Killmonger to win? DIdn't he want to use Wakanda's military to go to war against white people?

Yes, Killmonger, thank you for the correction.

I thought Killmonger was by the far the most sympathetic character. He was betrayed by his king and country, forced to live in exile or be known as the son of a traitor. His father's crime, by the way, felt to me more like a violation of national policy, as I thought he was supporting foreign nationalists and not supplying crime rings. His father was killed and the death covered up, that makes it manslaughter at least. KM was then trained by his country of residence to be a Black Ops soldier and then abandoned by that country as well, written off as criminal, much like the CIA actions of the 70s.

Upon returning home to claim his birthright, KM (I can't remember his name) legally fought and won his kingship. He immediately took steps to begin eradicating the tribalistic and isolationist policies that had kept Wakanda from a prominent role in world politics. He did this by enacting a police action against countries he perceived as prosecuting crimes against humanity and human rights. He acted with the purpose of securing Wakanda economic and political influence for the foreseeable future and to secure the rights and safety of Wakanda foreign nationals around the world.

If this were any other movie, this guy would be the hero.

mindspike wrote:I thought Killmonger was by the far the most sympathetic character. He was betrayed by his king and country, forced to live in exile or be known as the son of a traitor. His father's crime, by the way, felt to me more like a violation of national policy, as I thought he was supporting foreign nationalists and not supplying crime rings. His father was killed and the death covered up, that makes it manslaughter at least. KM was then trained by his country of residence to be a Black Ops soldier and then abandoned by that country as well, written off as criminal, much like the CIA actions of the 70s.
....
If this were any other movie, this guy would be the hero.

Whoa.
I've only ever seen this film once, and don't remember the details, but you've just blown my mind. I need to go back and watch this again. Except, I'm not sure how to feel about it now.

mindspike wrote:I thought Killmonger was by the far the most sympathetic character. He was betrayed by his king and country, forced to live in exile or be known as the son of a traitor. His father's crime, by the way, felt to me more like a violation of national policy, as I thought he was supporting foreign nationalists and not supplying crime rings. His father was killed and the death covered up, that makes it manslaughter at least. KM was then trained by his country of residence to be a Black Ops soldier and then abandoned by that country as well, written off as criminal, much like the CIA actions of the 70s.

Upon returning home to claim his birthright, KM (I can't remember his name) legally fought and won his kingship. He immediately took steps to begin eradicating the tribalistic and isolationist policies that had kept Wakanda from a prominent role in world politics. He did this by enacting a police action against countries he perceived as prosecuting crimes against humanity and human rights. He acted with the purpose of securing Wakanda economic and political influence for the foreseeable future and to secure the rights and safety of Wakanda foreign nationals around the world.

If this were any other movie, this guy would be the hero.

Well, dang. I guess I'll have to watch it again. If I come to the same conclusion, I'll probably have to drop that movie further down on my ranking list (not that it's all that high right now).

I believe his name is Erik Killmonger which...I mean, talk about a name that determines your future...

Looking at the Marvel Phase 4 projects, this is the one I'm really excited about:



I love martial arts movies, especially the chop-sockey style of the 70s and 80s. I considered Bruce Lee, Sonny Chiba, Jackie Chan, and David Carridine to be sort-of real-life super heroes. I had high hopes for the Iron Fist Netflix series, though I suppose that one didn't pan out the way anyone wanted it to.

In a modern movie, I would love to see Donnie Yen, Jet Li, or Chow Yun Fat in the role of Shang Chi. Though I suppose the studio will want someone significantly younger.

mindspike wrote:If this were any other movie, this guy would be the hero.

That is what makes him one of the best MCU villains IMO! The same can be said of Thanos. He failed to act and his entire planet was destroyed because of it, so he must go against everyone to do something drastic to save the universe! Obviously what they are doing is all screwed up, but I understand and can sympathize with them on some level. The best villains are the heroes of their own story! The Punisher would be a villain in anyone else's story!

As for the future of the MCU, I'm pretty much game for anything at this point. Marvel has rarely let me down. I'm looking forward to the sequels to the movies I like.
Spider-Man looks amazing and I can't wait for Black Panther 2, especially since Ryan Coogler is back for the sequel.
I'm glad James Gunn has been rehired for Guardians 3, otherwise I would be significantly less excited for it!
I'm down for a Black Widow movie! I hope Hawkeye is in it as well!
I don't know much about The Eternals, but Marvel has made me care for a talking raccoon, so I guess I'm on board.
Shang-Chi seems like a weird choice, but I'm curious to see how that would go. There's a lot of other characters I would like to see get a movie first though.

I'm most curious to see what new franchises they are going to start in this next phase. If they are going super-obscure then I want a Darkhawk movie!

As for the TV shows, I'm pretty much excited for all of them. I just hope this doesn't mean that these characters are done being in movies going forward.

AGoodReed wrote:- WandaVision - so I guess Vision will come back somehow.

I'm pretty sure they have said this is also going to be a prequel series.

I never really got aboard the "Marvel villains are weak" train. For me, while I do think the bad guy should be the "hero of his/her own story," I don't think they always need to be sympathetic. I don't even think they have to be that well-rounded. Sometime, the villain just needs to be there so that the heroes have something to rally against for their own character development. I guess that's why I didn't have that big of a problem with the Dark Elf, Steppenwolf, the bald guy from Ant-Man, etc.

If the villain in a movie is more likable than the hero (by the end, at least), then I'm probably not a fan of that movie. I want my heroes to be good and my villains to be bad. Call that what you will.

DNArington wrote:

AGoodReed wrote:- WandaVision - so I guess Vision will come back somehow.

I'm pretty sure they have said this is also going to be a prequel series.

Ugh. Not interested, then.

mindspike wrote:Unfortunately, I agree with John Wilkerson, with Disney owning shares in Hulu, I expect the two services to be combined within about 5 years. On the other hand, CBS is stubbornly refusing to give up their own service, and their catalog is much thinner than the combined Disney/Fox catalog they'll be hosting.

I know, I know. It's hard for you to agree with me.

jorowi wrote:

mindspike wrote:Unfortunately, I agree with John Wilkerson, with Disney owning shares in Hulu, I expect the two services to be combined within about 5 years. On the other hand, CBS is stubbornly refusing to give up their own service, and their catalog is much thinner than the combined Disney/Fox catalog they'll be hosting.

I know, I know. It's hard for you to agree with me.

No. No it's not. And I refuse to do it a second time.

LOL of the morning! Thanks, you guys.