Rogue One movie

Just.... yes!
Blue milk. Blue Milk. B-l-u-e m-i-l-k.
I guess that's a spoiler, but just a fan-service spoiler, really.

I don't know what to say. I'm still on the "leaving the theater high", I guess.
Now I have to find some ear buds and listen to why Paeter didnt like it

I also am very satisfied with the movie.
It *looked* like a Star Wars movie.
I don't think it necessarily felt like a part of the "Star Wars" story, like it should have an episode number. I also don't think that's a bad thing.
I thought that for once we got to see the real cost of what it meant to rebel against the Empire and steal the Death Star plans. That was very nice indeed.
I can predict with certainty two characters that Paeter is going to hate. You know the ones. I, on the other hand, have no complaints.
As a fan, I feel well served.

Yes, and honestly, he should hate them. But ruin-the-movie hate them?
And the music was ...not "bad" just "off". I would have gone for a completely different take on the music or re-use the themes and such.
And a couple plot holes...I'd like to watch it a couple more times to see if I'm missing something or if they just didn't think through a couple things.

But, as a Star Wars fan, who didn't care for ep.s 1-3, I think this is a really good step in the right direction.
Good characters for the most part, although I felt more connected to two of the secondary characters than the main two. And Alan Tudyk's character was phenomenal.

I did try and listen to Paeter's review of the movie, but we were so far apart in our reactions that I wonder if we were actually at the same film.
This is not a heist, even though everyone seems to be calling it that. This is a war movie in the vein of The Dirty Dozen. The supporting cast is there to echo aspects of Jyn's progression from anarchist to idealist. It's a fairly heavy-handed literary construction. Paeter is such a fan of films that focus on characters I felt sure he would glom onto this one.

All of the supporting cast are aspects of Jyn:

Saw Gerrera is reaction and rebellion taken to the extreme, whose end is paranoia and despair.
K-2SO is apathy and contempt, whose sole purpose is listless obedience.
Bodhi Rook is futility and desperation, with the need to do *something* about perceived injustice.
Chirrut Imwe is rote spirituality, who feels the absence of something indefinable and seeks to fill it.
Baze Malbus (heavy repeating blaster guy) is jaded atheism, convinced that life is only what you can make of it.
Galen Erso is sacrifice and idealism in the face of powerlessness.
Orson Krennic is selfishness and pride, focused on perceived slights and his own importance.
Cassian Andor is purpose and drive, to the exclusion and neglect of all other things.

As Jyn interacts with each of these characters she changes and grows. By the end of the film, Jyn is a deep and complex character that has been taken completely through the cycle of growth and development. The movie even closes with a denouement that recaps the entire film. You want a character film? One whose plot is only the vehicle for character development? This is a painfully textbook example.

Still, it *looks* and *feels* like Star Wars. The action and choices have a real and visceral cost. It's blatantly fan service, but it's a good movie in spite of that.

I also wondered if he watched the same film, but I had to trust him...I guess.

Dirty Dozen or Kelly's Heroes, that was what was on my mind.

Frankly, I thought Jyn was okay, but not fleshed out. I never connected with her at all.
To me, the ones that drew me in were Baze and Chirrut. Maybe they are trope enough that I felt like I knew them more than the movie actually portrayed, but I did feel like I knew them... and I cared.

K-2SO was terrific. I loved that character. Of course, I loved him in Hitchiker's Guide as well...

mindspike wrote:
I can predict with certainty two characters that Paeter is going to hate. You know the ones. I, on the other hand, have no complaints.
As a fan, I feel well served.

LOL! Yep! Didn't ruin the movie for me, but that was rough.
And I think that last sentence may be the difference. I have no hate for SW these days, but no special place in my heart for it either. It's just one of countless geek fiction worlds to me now.

mikel.withers wrote: I think this is a really good step in the right direction.

I'll definitely echo this. Both this flick and Ep.7 are doing some tonal things that I really appreciate and enjoy. Great direction for my tastes.

I thought this was a good look at the CGI used in this movie.

I'd like to add that, despite my cursed eyes making the CGI characters groan worthy for me, I was paradoxically impressed at the same time, as the technology is noticeably inching forward. Although I felt they were too bold in giving us such clear, center stage closeups of these characters, I thought at the same time, "in my lifetime. They're gonna nail this tech in my lifetime." And that's a very cool thought. Because when that happens film will be revolutionized in ways we can't imagine. (I'm thinking Elvis Presley and the "Dezz Carowynn" effect, if I can vainly make that reference. Once the legal stuff is settled, your favorite stars will be back from the dead soon in leading roles again!)

On the subject of digital actor recreation, I know that Paeter hated digital Jeff Bridges in Tron Legacy. What about the digital Young Michael Douglas in Ant-Man or Skinny Chris Evans in Captain America?

I did think that Jeff Bridges looked "off" in Tron, but I was totally sold on Peter Cushing, Michael Douglas, and Chris Evans. Where do others weigh in?

I really don't know the ins and outs of CGI, but I wouldn't have thought it would have been so difficult to fix the glaring errors with Tarkin. And by glaring, I mean glare. He looked like someone polished him.
And "CGI woman" (almost spoiled there) shone, glowed, even. She didn't match up with the ambient light, especially being in a hood.
Jeff Bridges looked off, but he was in the Matrix or video game or whatever, so that's forgivable.
Michael Douglas was good, and young Tony Stark was fantastic...although as a child of the 80's, that could be the nostalgia filling in gaps for me.
But skinny Chris Evans was fantastic. I think I had the opposite problem I had with the young Downey Jr, if I filled in the gaps with Djr, then perhaps knowing what Chris Evans looked like made totally trusting what I was seeing difficult with the skinny Steve Rogers.

But, on the plus side, we have a history of post-release touch-ups in this universe, don't we?

mindspike wrote:On the subject of digital actor recreation, I know that Paeter hated digital Jeff Bridges in Tron Legacy. What about the digital Young Michael Douglas in Ant-Man or Skinny Chris Evans in Captain America?

I did think that Jeff Bridges looked "off" in Tron, but I was totally sold on Peter Cushing, Michael Douglas, and Chris Evans. Where do others weigh in?

My memory sucks, but I think I remember being impressed with Michael Douglas. And really though Chris Evans worked great. Not sure how they approached the Jeff Bridges thing, but I think it was mocap and then reconstruction where the others were manipulation of filmed material, which my eye usually finds much more convincing.

In fact I'm wondering if we'll see it mastered in the upcoming Spiderman: Homecoming to give us a Batman Era version of Michael Keaton in his role as The Vulture. (The vulture is the one that turns young sometimes, right?)

mikel.withers wrote:
Jeff Bridges looked off, but he was in the Matrix or video game or whatever, so that's forgivable.

Almost. I clung to that whenever they were in the computer world. (Just like I do for poor Neo in his fight with the Smith mob in Reloaded. "The more he manipulates the code the more the image generators have problems keeping up. Yeah. Yeah, that's it.") But I think it's the opening scene that features a flashback of "Dig-Bridge" talking to his son, and that's when it was the biggest problem for me.

Paeter wrote:I'm wondering if we'll see it mastered in the upcoming Spiderman: Homecoming to give us a Batman Era version of Michael Keaton in his role as The Vulture. (The vulture is the one that turns young sometimes, right?)

Adrian Toomes' Vulture is an old man, depicted as between 60 and 80 in the comics. He has occasionally schemed to get young again, and sometimes succeeded for a time. I would be surprised if they tried for a young Michael Keaton. I'm really super glad the Vulture suit appears to be a modified, armored version of Falcon's wings. The traditional fur-ruffled green bodysuit just doesn't do it for me.....

mindspike wrote:

Paeter wrote:I'm wondering if we'll see it mastered in the upcoming Spiderman: Homecoming to give us a Batman Era version of Michael Keaton in his role as The Vulture. (The vulture is the one that turns young sometimes, right?)

Adrian Toomes' Vulture is an old man, depicted as between 60 and 80 in the comics. He has occasionally schemed to get young again, and sometimes succeeded for a time. I would be surprised if they tried for a young Michael Keaton. I'm really super glad the Vulture suit appears to be a modified, armored version of Falcon's wings. The traditional fur-ruffled green bodysuit just doesn't do it for me.....

Thanks for the insight. Either way, I love the idea of a physical combat oriented nemesis that's also "old". Cool and unusual twist. And I'm with you on the suit. Plus, if they link it to Falcon's wings that's further meshing with the MCU, so that sounds like something they'd like to do.

Well, I've seen it now. I really enjoyed the movie.
I enjoyed some of the fan-service elements such as the blue milk, the rebel base from Episode IV (which was beautifully rendered with modern effects BTW).

The stakes were very high, and although I knew how it would end, I felt the tension throughout the story (difficult to pull off, so well done to them).

Not sure what to make of the relgious ninja guy. His belief felt kinda like "desperation belief" somehow. I guess his belief in the force felt a little empty since he had no jedi powers. I dunno. Like a Christian without the Holy Spirit maybe?

This movie had a lot of senties-esque elements, such as the costumes and ship designs (and so it should have, in order to serve canon), but beyond that, it didn't really feel like a seventies movie. It still had the sensibilities of a modern movie to me. In the absense of John WIlliams, Miachel Giacchino seemed a good option for the score.

Seeing this movie, next to Episode IV, it seems to me that blowing up the death star, once they had the plans, was the easy bit. Getting those plans, that was the real struggle, the real victory. I actually don't feel so inclined to watch IV after this, because, great as it is, it doesn't hold a candle to the emotional weightof Rogue One. Because IV has cheesy elements (mostly the dialogue) it just doesn't have that same weight. Even when we see the entire planet Alderan destroyed, We don't feel it, like we feel the weight of events in Rogue One.

As for the CGI.
Tarkin looked pretty good. Would I have noticed it was CGI had Peater not mentioned it in his review? I honestly can't say. Probably. I doubt you get get a look-alike actor good enough, so that pretty much proves it's CGI. On the other hand, CGI-woman looked very fake. I'm puzzled that one can be so much more convincing than the other. In any case, I was very happy with her inclusion. I would have felt cheated, were she not there.

I really like the idea of using CGI to resurrect actors of aged or deceased actors. The technology has come a very long way. Maybe not *quite* there yet, but I'm excited by the possibilities.

I actually remember a segment on an old TV show, Beyond 2000 (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU4colv0eIwfuw79LM-ICpg/featured if you're interested. Interesting looking back from today), which first mentioned the possibility. At the time, they were showing untextured polygons, but they mentioned the idea of dead actors reprising roles with computer technology. Fascinating to see that it is now a reality all these years later.

I'm curious what the Han Solo movie will be like. Of the two premises, Rogue One was the more interesting to me. I think what I'd like to see is the story of how Ham and Chewy met. I understand that Ham saved chewy's life, leading to a life-long devotion of the Wookie to our favourite pirate.

mikel.withers wrote:K-2SO was terrific. I loved that character. Of course, I loved him in Hitchiker's Guide as well...

LOL

Rogue One just came out last Friday in China, so I finally saw it on Sunday (Jan. with my wife. I managed to avoid all the trailers, so we went in just about as blind as we could. We both enjoyed it a lot. I'm not surprised that I liked it, but my wife isn't a natural Star Wars fan, so it's a good sign that she liked it.

A little backstory regarding that: My wife is native Chinese. They didn't get Star Wars back in the day. In 2015, when I knew that The Force Awakens was coming, I decided I needed to get her up to speed on the Star Wars films. But when I showed her A New Hope, she was quite bored (it probably hurt that there weren't any Chinese subtitles). I still needed her to see the history to understand the new movie, so I showed her all the other films in part, basically skipping through them to the important stuff. (For The Phantom Menace, I basically skipped everything except the Darth Maul fight.) She still wasn't that into it, but she tried for my sake, God bless her. Ultimately, I think it helped, because when we saw The Force Awakens in the theater, she liked it a lot more, especially when I was able to lean over and say, "Remember the princess? That's her." Also, I think the updated production values (the fact that it looked new) was integral in her enjoyment. The Chinese people I know tend to not like older movies.

Regarding the CG people, I thought they looked great. I did have the fact that Tarkin was CG spoiled before I saw it, so I wonder how long it would've taken me to realize it. My wife couldn't tell until I told her.

Of particular interest to me was the performances of Donnie Yen and Jiang Wen, the two Chinese actors. I think they both knocked it out of the park. This is the first time I've seen Jiang, my favorite Chinese actor, outside of Chinese films. I loved both characters and was glad that they had such important parts in the film. I don't think their inclusion helped much for ticket sales in China, unfortunately.

They were my favorite characters in the movie.

Glad you liked it Reed! What is that carboard picture thing? It looks like the background of an action figure set with the plastic cover and figures removed.

Paeter wrote:Glad you liked it Reed! What is that carboard picture thing? It looks like the background of an action figure set with the plastic cover and figures removed.

It does, doesn't it?

It's just a cardboard stand advertising the movie in the lobby of the theater. Trying to get people to see the movie based on their recognition of Donnie Yen and Jiang Wen. Another theater in town had a stormtrooper statue/mannequin thing out...but the base said The Force Awakens, so it was obviously just one they'd saved.

Reed Benson wrote:
It's just a cardboard stand advertising the movie in the lobby of the theater.

Oh, wow! I had no sense of the scale! I thought it was a small thing on a shelf!

Reed Benson wrote:Trying to get people to see the movie based on their recognition of Donnie Yen and Jiang Wen.

This movie was written and directed to appeal to the Chinese market. The themes in the film are what you'd find in Chinese films. Disney, Marvel, and many other companies are now tailoring their films to Chinese viewers. The protagonist's first name, Jyn, is just a "Star Wars" version of Jin, a name that is for boys and girls in China.

This is a trend in Hollywood that will continue and will eventually drive American audiences away from these films. Ben Affleck threatened The Batman because the script was bad and the studio only cares about the Chinese market where they can make more money. They DCEU is a mess and I think the MCU is going to suffer too.

FYI, I'm kinda "meh" about this movie. It wasn't bad but it wasn't great.

jorowi wrote:

Reed Benson wrote:Trying to get people to see the movie based on their recognition of Donnie Yen and Jiang Wen.

This movie was written and directed to appeal to the Chinese market. The themes in the film are what you'd find in Chinese films. Disney, Marvel, and many other companies are now tailoring their films to Chinese viewers. The protagonist's first name, Jyn, is just a "Star Wars" version of Jin, a name that is for boys and girls in China.

This is a trend in Hollywood that will continue and will eventually drive American audiences away from these films. Ben Affleck threatened The Batman because the script was bad and the studio only cares about the Chinese market where they can make more money. They DCEU is a mess and I think the MCU is going to suffer too.

This is one of my favorite topics to talk about for some reason. But rather than derail the Rogue One thread any more, I'll just start a new one.